Author Topic: Winter 2018 Anime  (Read 2381 times)

Offline Lord Starfish

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2018, 05:39:27 PM »
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Oh wow, I often forget Clannad was made by KyoAni...WAIT! Woah, woah, woah, WOAW! Isn't Puella Magi Madoka Magica one of your favorites of all time or am I confusing you with someone else? The two aren't that much alike, but I'm still flabbergasted that someone who loves Madoka Magica would say that about Kyoukai no Kanata...
Well to be fair, Madoka also had a bit of a slow start and it took me a bit to get into it at first. That said, Madoka started with a battle against a bizarre abomination in a ruined city while Kalafina was singing about the end of the world. While the rest of the first episode was pretty much just taking its sweet-ass time establishing characters before then suddenly reminding us that we were watching a Shinbo show in the last five minutes, it did at least have that epically ominous intro to grab viewers' attention.
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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2018, 06:22:39 PM »
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Well to be fair, Madoka also had a bit of a slow start and it took me a bit to get into it at first. That said, Madoka started with a battle against a bizarre abomination in a ruined city while Kalafina was singing about the end of the world. While the rest of the first episode was pretty much just taking its sweet-ass time establishing characters before then suddenly reminding us that we were watching a Shinbo show in the last five minutes, it did at least have that epically ominous intro to grab viewers' attention.

Yep. The good 'ol "ok, the good stuff IS GOING TO COME EVENTUALLY so please stick around" trick. Same way Gurren Lagann made us know it wasn't only going to be about robots fighting 1-on-1 in a barren wasteland all the time.

Offline CL3

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2018, 11:13:18 PM »
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I'm still flabbergasted that someone who loves Madoka Magica would say that about Kyoukai no Kanata...

Yeah this is roughly my reaction too. :p

They're like 2/3 the same plot, and KnK just came off a bit less pretentious and a bit less edgy. Madoka gets endless credit from people who recently discovered the word deconstruction even though they have seen 0-1 magical girl shows before it, but taking away such meta considerations like influence on something and actually talking about whether the content is good on its own merits... I have to say I found KnK a step or two above Madoka. Sure, anime doesn't exist in a vacuum so meta considerations are a thing, but at the same time I don't like to rate based on them - it's basically giving a show a free pass or a hard time based on stuff that doesn't actually matter too much if you've watched it or not.

Maybe it is a bit high on MAL though - I've long since given up on trying to maintain perfect consistency there as I find my mood fluctuates on certain things a bit too much and as my list grows it becomes less and less feasible to revise with greater experience. As a general rule, my MAL scores are variable up to at least plus/minus 1 depending on how much I've actually thought about it and whether I've reflected on the score after some time after getting some idea of my more long term feelings on a show - memorability, lasting impact, etc - I'd say of the shows linked, I've overrated Clannad because I saw it long ago when my standards were not as well formed as they are now, I've overrated KnK by overestimating its lasting impact and possibly disproportionately recalling the better aspects. On the other hand I've possibly underrated Nichijou a fair amount as its lasting impression is a lot better than that score would suggest, looking back. I can take or leave Clannad tbh, and Kyoukai is good enough, but Nichijou was actually really good. (and it's the one I find hardest to imagine is from this studio, interestingly)

Looking through the full Kyoto Animation catalogue, I've also seen some of Haruhi (drop) and Koe no Katachi (but I don't rate movies). All things considered this isn't a studio I'd rate poorly - most of this stuff is recommendable enough IMO, though I'd probably advise caution with Haruhi and Clannad which I find awfully overrated by the community, albeit still far from awful (particularly the latter). Possibly a gateway thing, and possibly poor aging. Dunno.


Also KnK is annoyingly the acronym for both the show in question and a series of ufotable movies featuring Kalafina songs. Hell, one of the words is even the same, though it has moved from the first K to the second K.





« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 11:16:27 PM by CL3 »


Offline Lord Starfish

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2018, 11:57:48 PM »
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They're like 2/3 the same plot, and KnK just came off a bit less pretentious and a bit less edgy. Madoka gets endless credit from people who recently discovered the word deconstruction even though they have seen 0-1 magical girl shows before it, but taking away such meta considerations like influence on something and actually talking about whether the content is good on its own merits... I have to say I found KnK a step or two above Madoka. Sure, anime doesn't exist in a vacuum so meta considerations are a thing, but at the same time I don't like to rate based on them - it's basically giving a show a free pass or a hard time based on stuff that doesn't actually matter too much if you've watched it or not.
Ah, the good old deconstruction thing... I sincerely do not care about that aspect of it and I think Madoka holds up even for someone who has seen no magical girl shows and isn't even familiar with the genre. It's my favorite series not because it's OMG EDGY AND GRIMDARK AND SUBVERSIVE, but because it is, quite frankly, the most impeccably paced anime I've seen where not a second is wasted and everything fits together culminating in an ending I consider to be basically perfect... unless one also counts the Rebellion movie, which is slow, over-indulgent with its trippy Shinbo visuals, and throws a bizarre shocking swerve at you in the last 10 minutes (to be fair, there is foreshadowing for this twist but it's so subtle that I didn't even realize it until the third time I saw it), completely turns the status quo on its head and then just stops with no resolution. About the only thing I can really say in favor of that movie is that it had great animation, Yuki Kajiura being Yuki Kajiura, a rather badass fight between Mami and Homura (though said fight was basically filler) and that in the now 4+ years since then, Kalafina has yet to put out another song that's anywhere near as good as Kimi no Gin no Niwa, the movie's ending theme.

And I dunno, again I only saw one episode of Beyond the Boundary (See this way it doesn't get mixed up with Kara no Kyoukai!) and it's been years, so about all I can really remember is that, for being a show that sold itself as an epic fantasy action series... done by a studio whose animation on a bad day is still better than 98% of the entire anime industry ... I was just kinda bored. Not discounting the possibility that maybe it got better later or maybe I was just not in the right mindset for it at the time, but then I seem to recall the general consensus at the time it was airing was that it wasn't exactly breaking any boundaries, pun entirely intended.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 12:10:48 PM by Lord Starfish »
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Offline Garp

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2018, 01:31:18 AM »
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Uhh so Killing Bites 01
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Online Gan_HOPE326

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2018, 11:49:25 AM »
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I agree on Madoka on all counts. What makes it good isn't that it challenges or deconstructs stuff or some shit, but how finely crafted it is. It is, in many ways, flawless. And yeah, that excludes the Rebellion movie that has some spectacular moments but doesn't nearly hold up to the show.

As for KnK, I have not seen it, so dunno what to think of it. I might check it out I guess.

Offline CL3

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2018, 12:50:04 PM »
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So we stripped away the "hurr durr deconstruction" and now we're using the second favourite descriptor of Madoka I've seen people use: vague euphemistic terms about directorial work or storyboarding like "fine crafting" and "impeccable pacing". These are just things that one can appreciate on a technical level and if done well can amplify enjoyment, but still aren't the cornerstone of it for anyone except the "My tastes are like, so perfectly objective, dude" hipsters who are too busy trying to pump their e-peen to even notice their own ridiculousness. Hoping that we are not going down that route... I feel that people saying this stuff half the time aren't watching the show, but watching themselves watching it and trying to modulate their own reactions to feign sophistication. It's the same kind of statement as the "it's good because deconstruction". If that's what someone enjoys then fair enough for them, but it's not what I rate according to.

Yeah, I really don't like the Madoka fandom. Too many people parroting their favourite blog or youtube channel and not enough people just watching it and forming opinions like they do with most other shows.  :face-tongue

Strangely (?) upon a rewatch a few years back I actually enjoyed Madoka less. I'm probably pretty jaded by this, to be fair. I've never seen the movie(s?) and probably don't intend to.  :face-rofl


Offline Lord Starfish

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2018, 01:50:46 PM »
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So we stripped away the "hurr durr deconstruction" and now we're using the second favourite descriptor of Madoka I've seen people use: vague euphemistic terms about directorial work or storyboarding like "fine crafting" and "impeccable pacing". These are just things that one can appreciate on a technical level and if done well can amplify enjoyment, but still aren't the cornerstone of it for anyone except the "My tastes are like, so perfectly objective, dude" hipsters who are too busy trying to pump their e-peen to even notice their own ridiculousness.
...
WHY THANK YOU FOR BASICALLY CLAIMING THAT MY OPINIONS ARE INVALID.
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Online Gan_HOPE326

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2018, 03:15:28 PM »
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So we stripped away the "hurr durr deconstruction" and now we're using the second favourite descriptor of Madoka I've seen people use: vague euphemistic terms about directorial work or storyboarding like "fine crafting" and "impeccable pacing". These are just things that one can appreciate on a technical level and if done well can amplify enjoyment, but still aren't the cornerstone of it for anyone except the "My tastes are like, so perfectly objective, dude" hipsters who are too busy trying to pump their e-peen to even notice their own ridiculousness.

TL;DR "It is not something I like, therefore everyone who claims to like it is a liar."

Dude, we like it. Get over it. Madoka has a simple yet beautifully designed plot. Awesome fight scenes which mix well with equally awesome music. It is well paced, well directed, well-everything, and yes, while that alone is not sufficient to make enjoyment, it certainly goes a long way into making it so that a good core idea reaches its full potential. You may not like it. I don't like Clannad, I don't comment on its craft, because I just don't like its core conceit. Same reason why I didn't care for the widely praised Tsuki ga Kirei recently. I have no problem admitting that's a simple matter of taste.

As for objectivity vs. subjectivity, while there is no universal system of aesthetics, there are some ways of telling a story that effectively maximise emotive impact and involvement for a statistical majority of humans. Madoka nails those ways, whereas most random shitty anime do not, and that is why it's so popular. You still might be in the minority - nothing can possibly work for everyone - but to claim that the problem is that everyone else is making shit up is a tad bit pretentious.

Offline Garp

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2018, 03:34:16 PM »
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Classic CL3 discussion.

Offline CL3

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2018, 04:46:44 PM »
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...
WHY THANK YOU FOR BASICALLY CLAIMING THAT MY OPINIONS ARE INVALID.

...

YOU ARE MOST WELCOME

TL;DR "It is not something I like, therefore everyone who claims to like it is a liar."

Best summary ever.

What I'm more going for is that I rarely find people's reasons for liking this show particularly compelling. Less "liar" and more... potentially misguided? I totally get that there are different tastes but it's no fun to just say "durr hurr different tastes" to dispel all criticism and discussion. I'm much more prone to being unnecessarily controversial just to stop people neutering interesting disagreements with such stale and inert resolutions. Though you probably realise this. The lack of compelling-ness I feel is no doubt partly me "not liking it" (aside: dissent from fervent praise =/= not liking at all) since if I was of the same view it would obviously be easy to find these reasons compelling, and partly that this show seems to invoke a particularly cringeworthy kind of praise that makes me want to shitpost about it.

Classic CL3 discussion.

Quote
classic
ˈklasɪk/
adjective

    1.
    judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

Why thank you. Considering the lack of appreciation for the classics lately, it's nice to see a new face with some more sophisticated tastes.


Offline Garp

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2018, 04:50:47 PM »
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Why thank you. Considering the lack of appreciation for the classics lately, it's nice to see a new face with some more sophisticated tastes.

No problem man, I can recognise the highest quality of mental gymnastics when I see them. Nobody does it better than you.

Online HUNRonin

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2018, 06:09:59 PM »
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I mean I kinda agree with Chris here, calling the pacing of something "good" or "bad" is the single most meaningless description one can give. "fast" and "slow" is only moderately better, but they only have meaning if it's in comaprison to something. I know it's probably irrational but I just HATE it when people talk about pacing without actually describing WHAT makes the pacing good or bad.
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Offline Garp

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2018, 06:54:13 PM »
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After episode 1 of Darling in the Franxx, I like it already. Transforming mechas is what I like, I'm still hoping for a second TTGL though that's unlikely from this setting. I mean, it's cliché and predictable but it's good enough for me when compared to the other anime this season. Also Trigger, I like them about as much as MADHOUSE so there's hope.

Online Gan_HOPE326

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Re: Winter 2018 Anime
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2018, 07:18:43 PM »
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I mean I kinda agree with Chris here, calling the pacing of something "good" or "bad" is the single most meaningless description one can give. "fast" and "slow" is only moderately better, but they only have meaning if it's in comaprison to something. I know it's probably irrational but I just HATE it when people talk about pacing without actually describing WHAT makes the pacing good or bad.

I guess that what I mean by "good" is "well balanced". AKA strikes just the right medium between not being too slow (and thus boring) nor being too fast (and thus confusing). Moreso, the pacing itself matches step-by-step the needs of the story (for example, slowing down in the middle, then speeding up in crescendo as the finale approaches), and in that too it is very well crafted.

EDIT: watched Darling in the Franxx. I actually had not much hope for it, but it's been a nice surprise instead! It wasn't anything groundbreaking but it was fun and good-looking and has a couple interesting hooks. Also, adolescent sexual tension is pretty much a staple in mecha anime but OH MY Enel THIS WAS OFF THE CHARTS  :face-rofl.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 07:45:32 PM by Gan_HOPE326 »